Second part of the interview with Monsignor Carlo Maria Viganò by lawyer Reiner Füllmich of the Corona Investigative Committee. The first part was published here.
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In a letter you sent to then U.S. President Donald Trump, you allude not only to a “deep state” – a term that is widely used – but also to a “deep church”. What do you mean by that, and how might these structures be related?
The deep church is to the Catholic Church just as the deep state is to the State: they are both the corrupted and perverted version of the institution that they hold hostage and which they have infiltrated.
The members of the deep church are all the more unknown, the greater their power: the most public personalities are almost always marionettes who are docile to those who pull their strings. Biden and Bergoglio are the front men of the ideology that unites them: a mixture of Maoist collectivism, Masonic liberalism, and conciliar ecumenism, with nods to the politically correct issues of gender and the LGBTQ agenda.
It should however be reiterated that deep state and deep church are only two declinations of the same subversive dome that has appropriated power by subverting authority and perverting its ends. In the natural order, the State has as its end good governance and the common good of its citizens: the traitors of the deep state have made it an enemy of honest persons and the accomplice of criminals. In the supernatural order, the Church has as its end the government of the faithful and the sanctification of souls: the traitors of the deep church condemn those who preserve Faith and Morals and instead publicly praise heretics, sodomites, abortionists, usurers, assassins, and criminals. But let it be clear: if the delusional plans of these traitors include the destruction of the State and the Church by means of the demolition or corruption of those who hold authority, in both the one and the other, we know well that while a Nation, culture, language and civilization can even disappear, in the case of the Holy Church Our Lord’s promise remains valid forever: portæ inferi non prævalebunt adversus eam, [the gates of hell shall not prevail over the Church]. We must not think that the earthly fortunes of the Church should be judged according to merely human parameters, but rather we ought to have the certainty that the Lord will protect Her ut pupillam oculi [like the pupil of the eye].
An objection from those who reject the idea of such a thing as a conspiracy theory would be this: How is it possible that in almost all countries of the world almost all politicians are participating in this charade? Who could have so much power and influence that they could send half the world into seclusion?
The objection against those who support the theory of a global conspiracy is legitimate and understandable, because each of us has been rightly educated to a shared system of values and principles that we still take for granted: that the son should trust his father; that the student can place trust in the teacher; that the patient can rely on the doctor to be treated; that those who see a right violated can obtain justice from an impartial tribunal; that the needy can hope in the compassion and charity of others, that the citizen has rulers who are his guardians and protectors; that the faithful can listen with confidence to the voice of the Shepherds of the Church as if it were the voice of Christ Himself; that the reader is not deceived by the gatekeepers of information; that the customer should not fear being cheated by the shopkeeper, that people who dine at restaurants should not fear being poisoned by the owners. In this system the authority of the father, the teacher, the doctor, the judge, and the ruler, refers to the authority of God, who is Father, Master, Judge and King. It is evident that the work of dissolution of Christian society – which still is Christian in its roots, even if it now retains only scant traces of its Christianity – is motivated by Satan’s unquenchable hatred against Christ.
But what happens if, through a constant effort lasting more than two hundred years, the enemy infiltrates schools, courts, institutions, seminaries, companies and trade unions, and gradually conquers the highest levels of leadership, taking orders from the same group of power that commands everyone either by blackmail or reward? In the face of the evidence of such a subversion, we must not close our eyes because it seems too incredible not to have noticed it before. Instead, we must have the courage to recognize that many, too many of our silences have allowed the corrupt city councilor, the depraved parish priest, the dishonest soldier, the ignorant assistant, the unscrupulous doctor, and the lazy employee to be promoted to a parliamentarian, bishop, general, professor, or government official and thus to have made himself blackmailable. In the end, the ones who are in charge are quite few, and the many who obey them do so mostly out of conformism or to hide small pettiness. But these few – and we know this from the data they themselves disseminate – really do have an exorbitant power, which increases with each new adept individual whom they appoint to the highest leadership of the institutions. This is not an unbelievable situation, on the contrary: it is extremely simple to comprehend, if we consider who owns the media, who finances political parties, who sponsors international institutions, and who gives the balance sheet reliability reports of nations. They are always the same people who are heads of a very small number of investment funds, and an even smaller number of representatives of usurious high finance. The names are always the same, and we know who they are.
It has been a few years since you strongly criticized Pope Francis for lifting penalties against the former Archbishop of Washington, Theodore McCarrick, who is one of the main figures accused in the abuse scandal of the Catholic Church in the USA, an outrageous act. As a vehement critic of a conciliatory approach to this seemingly recurring problem of child abuse, what can you say about the prevalence and significance of this cruel phenomenon in the Catholic Church and Western politics?
After my denunciation of the McCarrick case, I tried to show the link between moral and doctrinal corruption, highlighting that the crisis of Faith and Liturgy that followed the Second Vatican Council could not fail to also entail a subversion of Morality in the faithful and in the Clergy. Because a deviated faith leads to a deviated morality; a heretic will never be an honest, chaste, sincere person: if he embraces lies and error in matters that directly concern the Truth of God, that is, the Truth about God himself, with all the more reason he will be able to create his own morality – what the modernists call the morality of the situation – which adapts itself to the circumstances.
The error of the Second Vatican Council, initially disguised in order to hide its subversive nature – was precisely that of thinking that it could preserve the faith intact in a hyperuranium, considering it out of date and too difficult to ask the faithful to embrace it in its totality; and in the moral sphere, to preserve Morality as an abstract model, letting Catholics choose according to convenience which principles to follow and which to disregard. For the conciliar church the doctrine of the divinity of Our Lord remains theoretically valid, but it can be accepted that there are those who do not believe in it, hypothesizing a path – which is usually never undertaken – of slow conversion that supposedly will lead to embracing the entire Catholic teaching. Similarly, abortion or sodomy are sins that cry out for revenge before God, but remain abstract notions that pastors do not ask the faithful to follow as the first step of conversion. So, the thief continues to steal in view of his future conversion, reassured by the fact that he does not kill or commit adultery. Those who commit adultery feel reassured by the fact that they do not beat their children or exploit employees. But this is not what Our Lord asked: You are my friends if you do what I command you (Jn 15:9), he said; and not: you are my friends if you choose in which thing you obey me. To be Catholic means to make a heroic choice, by which we do not adhere to a philanthropic association, but are incorporated through Baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, and by Grace we are constituted as children of God the Father in Christ Jesus. Mediocrity is not possible for a Catholic, much less for a priest or a bishop.
This attitude of renunciation is revealing of a human vision of the Church, which according to them should adapt herself in pastoral care to the mentality of the world, maintaining the teaching of Christ only in the magisterium, as in a sort of archive that no one will ever consult because it is considered utopian and unrealistic. A way to silence the conscience by preserving the depositum fidei [deposit of faith] in theory but at the same time indulging lusts and sin by legitimizing doctrinal and moral deviations.
It is evident that in order to convince the Bishops to renounce the integrity of the Catholic Magisterium, they had to be corrupted in soul, because a Prelate who lives an immoral life – and who thus is often blackmailable – does not dare to ask others to respect the Commandments that he himself breaks. That is why the infiltrators of the deep church have eliminated or marginalized within a few decades the healthy part of the clergy and episcopate, replacing them with those who are immoral, lustful, corrupt and heretical. Their mere presence at the highest levels of the Hierarchy is the most effective tool to destroy the Church from within, just as the deep state has done in the civil sphere: a corrupt or blackmailable politician will vote for laws that legitimize corruption and vice, and if he does not want to do so because he has some moral scruples, he will do so because otherwise his personal scandals are brought to light.
The only way out of this infernal labyrinth is a moralizing action undertaken by Authority, whether religious or civil. The one who commands must know that his power belongs to God, and that in exercising it he must avail himself of all the virtues required for good governance and to achieve the end for which authority is constituted. The concept of “vicarious authority” was very clear until the French Revolution, because it was inextricably linked to the Faith: it was the cancellation of God from society that ipso facto made rulers into potential tyrants, because it relieved them of their moral responsibility before God – the one Lord and King – limiting the question of power to the satisfaction of the majority. The same thing happened in the Church, which preferred to come to terms with the world and assume its profane mentality, convinced that She could survive – She who is a divine institution with a supernatural end – by presenting herself as a human institution with humanitarian purposes.
When the Bishops – and the Pope – return to believing, when they return to loving God for how He revealed Himself to us and in what He taught us; when they realize that their every failure, every error taught to the simple, every tolerated deviation has disfigured the face of Christ, has torn His flesh in the scourging, has pierced His hands and feet in the crucifixion, and that because of this Our Lord died to redeem us, they will be willing to die in witness to their faithfulness to the One who placed them in authority. As long as they try to navigate with human logic, their ministry will be empty, just as their churches, their seminaries, and their convents are empty. They will disappear by extinction, while good priests will continue to do what has always been done for the glory of God and the sanctification of the faithful.
Of course, since you are not a medical expert, you cannot give an assessment in this regard. However, since you interpret the current crisis not only as a medical or political crisis, but recognize an eschatological relevance of the current events, we would be interested to know how you would classify the mRNA injections, which play a crucial role in the whole orchestration, from your theological perspective.
The modification of the individual’s DNA caused by the experimental serum with new mRNA technology is perhaps the most alarming aspect of this epochal battle. If there are economic powers that have no qualms about targeting the world’s population in order to weaken their immune systems, cause sudden deaths and make us all chronically ill in order to sell their concoctions or their health care services, on the other hand there are people who are devoted to evil and who are well aware that they work in the service of a hellish plan, for the advent of the Antichrist through the synarchy of the NWO.
In the attempt to genetically modify man, we see Satan’s aversion against Creation taken to extreme consequences, and in particular against man himself, who in the economy of salvation was chosen to be the temple of the Most Holy Trinity.
In your letter to then-President Donald Trump, you spoke of a confrontation between the forces of light and the forces of darkness. Where do we now stand in this confrontation? What are the conceivable outcomes of this struggle? What can we, who want to strengthen the light, do?
Spiritual events intersect with earthly events, history intersects with the eternity of God, human events are the battlefield in which the children of darkness fight the children of Light: a battle that for humanity began with the fall of Adam, deceived by Satan and deluded that he could be like God. That temptation is repeated over the centuries to every man, whenever the Enemy tries to persuade him that he can decide for himself what is good and what is evil, attributing to himself the sovereign rights of the Lord over creatures. It is the battle that is being fought even today, after centuries of rebellion against the Law of God and refusal to recognize the Lordship of Jesus Christ. In the end, everything comes back to this discrimen, to the Lord’s statement, “Whoever is not with Me is against Me,” (Lk 11:14) and to our free response to the love of God the Creator and Redeemer.
To judge these epochal events as a simple human conspiracy aimed at seizing power would be an understatement; to think that all the proponents of the Great Reset are convinced worshippers of Satan is also an exaggeration. But precisely because of our weakness, which is entirely human, not only in doing good but also in doing evil, we can move the Lord to have mercy, causing him to confound the designs of the wicked and not allow them to achieve their intents. The good are disorganized, divided, and quarrelsome; while the wicked are organized, united and always united adversus Dominum, et adversus Christum eius. But the good, if they understand the spiritual dimension of this epochal clash and decide to take sides under the banners of Christ the King, will be able to achieve victory with Him and see their common enemies defeated.
Allow me to conclude this interview by thanking you, Lawyer Füllmich, for having given me the opportunity to express my thoughts on these important issues. I wish all of you in the Corona Commission and all those in every nation who fight the globalist Leviathan to be able to achieve the desired results. And may God bless you.
+ Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop