Interview with Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò /
Aldo Maria Valli interview with Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò for Duc in altum website
February 16, 2025
Duc in altum: Your Excellency, the Trump Administration’s decision to put a stop to the immigration policies of the woke Left was part of the electoral platform that brought Donald Trump to victory. Along with closing the borders with Mexico, the President has cut the funds that government agencies were allocating to individuals, organizations, and entities in exchange for their action in support of globalism. To the voices of condemnation for these political decisions – decisions that are completely legitimate – is now added that of Jorge Mario Bergoglio, who in his Letter to the Bishops of the United States of America has harshly expressed his condemnation of the “mass deportation” decided on by the US government.
Carlo Maria Viganò: Like everything that comes out of Bergoglio’s mouth, these accusations against the Trump government are false and delusional. There is no “mass deportation” occurring. Rather, there is a precisely focused decision to put an end to the floods of unregulated immigrants that previous Administrations had planned, favored, and encouraged. In fact, deportation occurred in the opposite direction during the Clinton, Obama, and Biden Administrations, excluding a priori targeted international cooperation projects to help populations in need in their respective countries of origin, instead focusing every effort – even when it was against the law – to increase the ethnic substitution plan. Those who are now tearing their garments do so only because their lucrative business has been put to an end. They have shamefully profited from this forced migration which was made possible by the network of international organizations and organized crime that manage human trafficking.
Bergoglio’s letter is a jumble of falsehoods and deceptions. It betrays the panic of the mercenaries and the anger of their financiers. Bergoglio has gone so far as to invent a new doctrine, imposing as a moral duty “the reception of immigrants,” from whose management he obtains billions in public funding and through which he accredits himself as the main interlocutor of the globalist elite and executor of the woke agenda. He exploits the teaching of Pius XII – decontextualizing and distorting his words – because by quoting a Pope not suspected of modernist or conciliar contamination, he hopes to gain the attention and support of those faithful who do not listen to him.
We need to understand Bergoglio’s fraudulent operation: he wants to take the conflict between the immigrationist-woke deep church and the Trump Administration to the next level, “dogmatizing” the duty to welcome illegal immigrants and thus forcing American Catholics to see Trump as an enemy of the Catholic Church. In short, he is trying, according to his characteristic modus operandi, to turn President Trump into an adversary in order to undermine his support from Catholic voters. This dishonest operation also serves to put back at the center of the American political and social debate an Episcopate that has been widely discredited due to the sexual and financial scandals that have so far seen it totally subservient to the establishment of the Democratic Party. The real clash is between Trump’s political conservatism – MAGA – with which the majority of Americans, including Catholics, identify, and the ultra-progressivism of the Bergoglian deep church.
American Catholics, however, have seen through the fraud! While Bergoglio, in obedience to his globalist masters, hurls anathemas against those who “build walls,” President Trump has announced – among other measures that we welcome with deep satisfaction – the return of the United States to the Geneva Consensus Declaration, which defends the right to life for all, reaffirms the importance of the family, and affirms that there is no international “right” to abortion.
Thanks to Trump, the Ukrainian crisis is also being resolved…
The peace talks that President Trump has undertaken with President Putin to heal the conflict in Ukraine – which began back in 2014 with the regime change that was imposed by the Anglo-American deep state – will put an end to a massacre that, for the sake of satisfying the thirst for power of the globalist elite, has sent thousands and thousands of innocent people to the slaughter, destroyed an entire country, fueled the market of organ harvesting (as reported by international agencies) and caused a disastrous impoverishment of European nations due to the outrageous sanctions imposed against the Russian Federation.
On certain issues, Francis Bergoglio does not seem as sensitive as he is on welcoming…
It is shocking how Bergoglio’s appeals on the “infinite dignity of all” stubbornly exclude defenseless children massacred by abortion, victims of organ harvesting and mutilation for so-called gender transitioning, mothers used as merchandise for surrogate motherhood, young people corrupted by woke perversions, and the masses of minors who fuel the prostitution racket or end up in a Beverly Hills villa to satisfy the execrable depravities of the pedophile elite.
If Bergoglio were truly Catholic, he would be praising Trump’s social policies, instead of ideologically condemning them.
The newly appointed bishop of Detroit has proposed canonical sanctions – from a ban on receiving Communion to excommunication – for border guards who do not allow illegal immigrants to violate the borders. This woke delirium typical of the Bergoglian church is even more serious in the face of the silence of the Bishops on the scandal of a corrupt self-styled “Catholic” President like Joe Biden, who promoted abortion up to the moment of birth and yet was consistently sacrilegiously admitted to Communion.
In what way has Pius XII’s Apostolic Constitution Exsul Familia been inappropriately cited by Bergoglio?
The “magisterium” of the Bergoglian church is totally self-referential: Bergoglio practically only cites himself, and when he cites documents from Vatican II and post-conciliar Popes it is only so he can surpass them. Seeing Pius XII cited by Bergoglio should therefore arouse a more than legitimate suspicion, confirmed in fact also by a quick reading of Exsul Familia. The apostolic zeal of Pope Pius XII – as well as his Predecessors – is not limited to a mere indication of the need to welcome floods of immigrants, but focuses first and foremost on the care of the souls of Catholics who have been forced to migrate due to famine, war, or religious persecution. Even if the great economic migrations of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries were driven by the same international lobbies, moving populations from the South of Europe to the North, or from Europe to the Americas, we cannot forget that the historical context of the post-war period was very different from the current one, first of all because the Catholic Church was not – nor could She ever have been – an ally and accomplice of Freemasonry. She was rather a firm and courageous protector of the poor and the weak. Secondly, because today the attack on our civilization is much more violent and open than it was at the end of the Second World War.
Pius XII wrote: “Holy Mother Church, impelled by her ardent love of souls, and impatient to fulfill the duties inherent in her mandate of salvation for all mankind, a mandate entrusted to her by Christ. She has been especially careful to provide all possible spiritual care for pilgrims, aliens, exiles, and migrants of every kind. This work has been carried out chiefly by priests who, in administering the Sacraments and preaching the Word of God, have labored zealously to strengthen the Faith of those Christians and to deepen the bonds of charity” (Const. Ap. Exsul Familia, 1 August 1952, n. 5)[1].
Especially spiritual care…
The very last thing that Bergoglio ever pursues is the defense of the integrity of the Faith or the salvation of souls. Nor does he really care about the poor: just look at how many homeless people are camped around the Vatican and under Bernini’s Colonnade; back in the era of Covid, in order to get a meal they had to show that they had received the vaccine. The ugly bronze boat erected in Saint Peter’s Square is a monument to Bergoglio’s hypocrisy. For him, the poor and the marginalized are a mere tool to “crossbreed” both the social and ecclesial fabric – that is, to dissolve it – and thus obtain the definitive cancellation of what remains of Christian Society after decades of secularization. Bergoglio “thinks big” – he wants to create the premises for the New Religion of Humanity, deluding himself that he can preside over it and thus carve out a role for himself in the New World Order. As a prophet of syncretistic, ecological, and inclusive globalism, Bergoglio even made an appearance at the Sanremo Festival to launch John Lennon’s song Imagine, the Masonic manifesto of the New Order.
The Apostolic Constitution of Pope Pius XII is of a totally opposite tenor to this horizontal vision, as is the entire Catholic Magisterium compared to the Bergoglian one. In Exsul Familia, Pius XII recalls the slave trade at the hands of usurers in America (n. 11), and he mentions the dangers to which Mexicans were exposed when fleeing the anticlerical and Masonic revolution (1926-1929), having become the prey of the enemies of Christ (ibid. 54). Bergoglio’s attitude towards persecuted Christians is quite different: with the secret agreement made with the communist regime of Beijing, he has handed over Chinese Catholics to be slaughtered, and he remains silent on the violations of their fundamental human rights.
In Bergoglio’s dystopian vision – anti-human, anti-Christian and antichristic – our nations are lands set apart for Mohammedan conquest: this is the purpose of conciliar ecumenism. According to the Koran, anywhere the call of the muezzìn resounds and where the “prayer carpet” is spread is Islamic territory. The connivance of the Bergoglian clergy, who host imams in our churches and allow such prayer in the parvises of our cathedrals, constitutes a betrayal of Christ and of the faithful. Regulated immigration, in which there is true integration and in which the Catholic Church is committed to converting pagans to the true Faith, is the last thing Bergoglio wants: the purpose of the invasion is not to help the dispossessed and the poor, but rather to import poverty, social chaos, and civil war into our cities. And if globalism supports Bergoglio, it is because he is one of its emissaries, obedient to the orders given to him.
What we are witnessing is in fact a forced migration, which impoverishes the nations of origin of so many men and young people who could be making their own governments strong and their own nations prosperous. Instead, they are transformed into criminals, slaves, and victims of the vile trafficking of perverts or of the organ harvesting market. Hundreds of thousands of minors disappear into thin air every year, with the complicity of those who pervert Christian charity in the culpable counterfeiting of “welcoming” in order to make a profit.
To say nothing of the problem of the low birth rate in Western countries…
The demographic decrease, which has been intentionally created by policies that discourage the birth rate and penalize the natural family, constitutes the main purpose of the action of the globalist elite, for which it proposes as a solution ethnic replacement with masses of foreigners. In 2015 (here) Bergoglio said: “There are those who believe that to be good Catholics we must be like rabbits.” Today (here) he argues that the demographic decline of Western countries must be fought not with wise policies of protection of the natural family and dignified working conditions, but with open borders and the institutionalization of that mixed race so dear to the Archbishop emeritus of Milan Cardinal Scola[2] and theorized by the neo-Malthusian eugenicist Freemason Kalergi since the middle of the last century. No longer Catholic children in Catholic lands, but rather an intentional creation of mestizo children who are without history, without tradition, without education nor culture, without identity, without homeland, and without faith, exploited to feed the globalist Moloch and the tyranny of the World Economic Forum.
Bergoglio’s globalist dystopia aims at the erasure of national and ethnic identities, especially where they are founded on Christian civilization, and instead promotes anything linked to pagan and idolatrous beliefs. The cancellation of all differences and the external homologation of cultures ought to be considered by the Catholic Church as a disaster, while the Bergoglian Church is recklessly promoting it.
Today we are discovering that the entire global media system has been funded by USAID and other government agencies.
What has been emerging in the United States since President Trump’s inauguration is only the tip of the iceberg of a vast subversive system that involves all Western states. These are not isolated cases of corruption, but a planned occupation that the globalist Left considers indispensable in order to gain power and, once it has appropriated that power, use it for the establishment of a totalitarian regime. And what is paradoxical and at the same time unprecedented is that the deep state even goes so far as to make its victims – that is, all of us – pay the costs of this infernal project, using taxpayers’ money to confine us in our homes, deprive us of our freedom, and exterminate us with wars, famines, pandemics, and vaccines. In the same way, the deep church uses the offerings of the faithful to spread heresies, normalize vice and perversion, Islamize Christian nations, desecrate our churches and altars, and persecute dissenting voices with suspensions and excommunications.
How can the elite achieve the goals they have set for themselves?
Through situations of permanent crisis that legitimize the authority to derogate from ordinary laws. If we want to create an emergency as a pretext to legitimize the ceding of sovereignty to private lobbies, it is necessary that those who operate the institutional and media machine have a direct interest in promoting the crisis, even if they know perfectly well that it is a fraud. Governments, politicians, journalists, judges, doctors, teachers, law enforcement, actors and singers, intellectuals and influencers, bishops, priests and even the one who claims to be “the pope”: all of them depend for their support on their active collaboration with the deep state. They are paid as mercenaries, and as mercenaries they have no other master than money, success, and power; and also those who allow them to have that money, that power. At the top of the infernal globalist pyramid that makes use of these mercenaries we find the Luciferian delirium of those who want to do Evil, against God and against man, seeking to replace God with Satan and man with the androgynous humanoid.
This global network of corruption has served – and in part still serves, especially in Europe – to alter social dynamics in a criminal and fraudulent way. Such undue and unprecedented interference cannot simply be identified and acknowledged: it must also be eradicated and punished, because it is at the root of an induced and planned crisis from which it is otherwise impossible to escape. And when I say “eradicated and punished,” I am referring mainly to those responsible, to those who have been guilty of a betrayal that is at the origin of the moral, social, and economic decay that is being forcibly imposed on us. It is no longer possible to tolerate that Soros, Gates, Schwab, Obama, the Clintons, the Bidens, Bergoglio and his acolytes, and other conspirators continue to rage against the whole of humanity, over people who are largely unaware that they are the object of a diabolical experiment of social engineering aimed at their physical and moral extermination. If President Trump aims to cut off the head of the Leviathan, as he is already doing, we can only be happy and finally breathe a sigh of relief.
How do you think Donald Trump can contribute to the demolition of the deep state? Do you think he can be successful?
The Trump administration is well aware of two things. First, there is a subversive supranational power that constitutes a concrete threat to the sovereignty of nations and to all humanity. Second, there is a group of people and agencies that support this power because they derive an advantage from it in terms of power and money. Cutting off funds to the accomplices of the globalist criminal system and its deep power means depriving the elite of the instrument of control and propaganda. Not even Judas would have betrayed Christ without receiving the thirty pieces of silver from the Sanhedrin: without the pretium sanguinis, the incentive to commit crime is also lost, and with it the blackmail of those who are said to have committed it. An excellent move, therefore, which is already having significant repercussions at the global level, has been the interruption of USAID’s funding, accompanied by the grotesque jeremiads of those who have been dutifully deprived of it (I am thinking of those of activist James Martin, S.J.).
Speaking of jeremiads: the words of condemnation uttered by the ultra-progressive American Episcopate and all their supporters are impossible to number.
The words of American cardinals and bishops speaking against the cut in donations to the so-called welfare agencies of the Catholic Church are steeped in hypocrisy and falsehood. They come from characters who have not wasted one word – nay, not even one syllable – against the policies promoting abortion, gender ideology, surrogate parenthood, euthanasia, and homosexuality of previous Administrations in the hands of the Democrats, while they wake up from their vile torpor only when a brake is put on illegal immigration, for which the deep church receives billions from the treasury.
How do you judge the economic dependence of Bishops’ Conferences, Dioceses, Religious Orders, ecclesiastical bodies and “Catholic” NGOs on funding from the United States Agency for International Development (USAID)?
Bergoglio preaches with his words a “poor church for the poor,” knowing full well that the freedom to which the Catholic Church is entitled – and which is at the basis of the need for her independence, including the financial independence of her organs – is completely incompatible with its economic dependence on the State.
An NGO is precisely a non-governmental organization: it cannot be independent if it depends on the funding that the government provides it. It is certainly good and proper for the State to help and encourage the social action of the Catholic Church, but it is equally true that at a time when ecclesiastical entities – both central or peripheral – are no longer supported by the offerings of the faithful but by the sponsorship of government agencies and private entities, the Church becomes forced to follow the agendas dictated by those who allow her to exist and operate.
The economic dependence of the institution is made possible by the corruption and blackmail of its leaders, because if the Catholic Church were governed by good, incorruptible, and non-blackmailable pastors, they would never accept her enslavement to the interests of a power that is openly enemy of Christ, nor would they allow themselves to be bought out of thirst for money or career ambitions. That is why it is indispensable that the institution which is to be corrupted should in turn be governed by corrupt people; and this applies indifferently to the civil and ecclesial spheres.
To confirm this, it is enough to recall the chilling effect caused by the threat to revoke a billion dollars of funding to Ukraine – reported by Joe Biden himself – in order to stop the Attorney General’s investigation into his son Hunter.
We are talking about an institutional network – maneuvered by the Anglo-American deep state – that for decades has secretly paid thousands and thousands of organizations, associations, journalists, politicians and other public figures to shamelessly lie to billions of people, creating a distorted narrative so as to induce the population to accept, under threat of impending catastrophes and emergencies, what it would never have accepted under normal conditions. You have spoken of the link of interests and complicity between the deep state and the deep church since 2020, and today the news about the interference of USAID and other government agencies in the politics of the entire Western world confirms the veracity of your words. What are the implications we can draw from all this?
The first undeniable reality, however terrible and shocking, is the complicity of the Bergoglian Church with the criminal system organized by the globalist elite: we must take note that the betrayal of the rulers towards their fellow citizens is mirrored by the betrayal of the Pastors towards their flock. This places the entire ruling class, that is subservient to the globalist elite, in a condition of illegitimacy – I would even say of high treason – to which justice must be done.
The Jesuit Refugee Service (JRS) receives more than $35 million annually for its U.S. headquarters alone from USAID and other federal agencies.
If the cuts decided by the Trump Administration are actually causing the total interruption of humanitarian aid from these pseudo-charitable entities, this also means that the faithful do not approve of them in even the slightest way with any financial support. If this is true, it seems to me that the ideological line imposed on citizens by the deep state and on the faithful by the deep church has amply demonstrated their tyrannical nature.
The current President of the Italian Bishops’ Conference, Matteo Zuppi, will soon understand that this obstinacy of the bishops in supporting the extreme fringes of woke progressivism – starting with the Sant’Egidio Community – has totally distanced them from normal Catholics, arousing in them an understandable disgust. Just as Bergoglio’s advertisement at the Sunday Angelus for the Italian TV show Che tempo che fa, where a hired Fabio Fazio has just celebrated the criminal Bill Gates by presenting him as a benefactor of humanity, further delegitimizes the Papacy.
There are also hundreds of millions of dollars doled out to the “evangelical churches,” always with the same purposes.
Bergoglian prelates and bishopesses, such as the Episcopalian Marian Budde of Washington National Cathedral, are in agreement with each other on two points: apostasy in matters of the Faith and a corresponding lust for money and power. Their ecumenism is ultimately motivated only by the desire to share the spoils, and in the face of this all Faith dogmas can be changed. They talk to us about poverty even from the pulpits – reworking Klaus Schwab’s motto You Won’t Have Anything and You’ll Be Happy in a pauperist key – and they become accomplices of those who make us poor with scandalous speculation and fraud; in the meantime they shamelessly profit from misery and the crises they cause. Thus, while the faithful were terrified by psychopandemic propaganda and were told they could not go to Mass if they were not vaccinated, the Holy See received generous donations from BigPharma to host its conferences in the Vatican, and Bergoglio improvised himself as a salesman for harmful and deadly vaccines, produced with aborted human fetuses, all with the placet of the former Holy Office then directed by the Jesuit Ladaria. It was “an act of love,” Bergoglio said, while Melinda Gates opened an account with the Vatican Bank. Meanwhile, Bergoglio was already speaking of “Mother Earth” – coincidentally, the Pachamama – of “sins against the environment,” and of the urgency of switching to renewable energy.
The moral prostitution of these characters does not shrink from anything, if there is money at stake: in the United States there are over 150 “Catholic” clinics that perform gender transition surgeries (genital mutilation) funded by the government, and God only knows how much money Catholic hospitals took during the psychopandemic farce as payment for killing patients with lethal therapies, or for inoculating people with a deadly or severely disabling gene serum. Furthermore, for each “vaccine” administered there was a bonus that encouraged and legitimized any aberration: and this was the case everywhere, with a single script under a single direction.
Needless to say, these activities have nothing Catholic about them, and the apostolate, preaching, religious instruction, the care of souls, and the celebration of the Sacraments are not of the least concern for these temple merchants.
Funding given for the implementation of the Agenda 2030, for spreading woke propaganda, or for ethnic replacement is the new thirty pieces of silver with which the new globalist Sanhedrin pays these new Judases to deliver over, not the Lord, but His faithful, His ministers, His Mystical Body. And like Iscariot – whom Bergoglio significantly proposes as a model – they too are apostles, albeit renegades, but always in an ideal line of “apostolic succession” with the mercator pessimus.
One fact is however clear: all the programmatic points that the emails of Hillary Clinton’s adviser, John Podesta, hoped for as reforms of a “springtime of the Church” are now slavishly carried out by the action of Bergoglio and his acolytes. I very much hope that the new Director of the CIA will want to verify the existence of a deep state plan for the elimination of Benedict XVI in order to have an emissary from the Davos elite on the Throne of Peter.
Your Excellency, how can we get out of this impasse of corruption and conflicts of interest?
It is difficult, humanly speaking, to think of a peaceful or short-term way out. It seems clear to me that Western society has now reached that level of decadence that usually preludes the decline of a civilization. It has already happened in the past, for example with Rome, whose empire dissolved due to the corruption and vices of its leaders. It seems that the role of the West is exhausted, at least of this West that is apostate and rebellious. But the Catholic Church does not follow the dynamics of a human kingdom and has a divine mission – and divine assistance – that allows her to face even the passio Ecclesiæ that has already begun.
This awareness must not lead us either to consider the Church as a merely human society, or to attribute to the Church, which is holy, the sins with which her unworthy ministers are stained. The evil we see around us must be denounced and fought against, but always in the conviction that the Bride of the Lamb, however humiliated, however disfigured by her tormentors, remains the only Ark of salvation in this world.
[1] Translation from La Civiltà Cattolica, 1952, Vol. IV; Costituzione Apostolica sulla cura spirituale degli emigranti, of the Giunta Cattolica Italiana for immigration Rome, 1962. The website of the Holy See curiously has only the Latin text of this document.
[2] “The hybridization of civilizations and cultures is a fact, an unstoppable process and we must be aware of it. […] The mixing [of races] is now a structural phenomenon and migration cannot be considered just an emergency,” here.
